Color.io Has Been Released

[Frank Glencairn]

Who's behind it?


For those of you who are not familiar with those LUT packs. You will find some awful LUTs in it. The M31 is one of the worst LUTs on the market

Well to be fair - about 10 years ago, when they came out with the OSIRIS LUTs, I did an interview with Steve Griffith of VisionColor,
and they jumped through quite some hoops to get them right.

https://frankglencairn.wordpress.co...ook-at-the-visioncolor-osiris-lut-collection/

Most of the horrible results I saw from OSIRIS and IMPULZE are from folks that just slapped the LUTs on any sort of material - not knowing that any LUT expects a specific input to work properly.

And yeah, to some degree I was also guilty of this - at least till I wrapped my head around it.
If I look at the images in my article today - it's hair rising. But back than it was all new in Resolve, and I drove it to the max.

Today my grading is much more reasonable, but sometimes I still grab of of those LUTs - and they can look good, when you know what you are doing.

 

[Aaron Kessler]

You'd have to jump through so many hoops and be ultra careful every step of the way to get these things right with existing tools.

Exactly. And that is what I have done for the past six or seven years without ever being completely happy. I might have gotten close to my desired aesthetic, but always with some kind of nasty tradeoff, like saturated yellows getting turned into an unpleasant dark orange.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

It looks interesting but designing looks in a browser instead of on a grading monitor seems impractical especially for HDR..

Not only for HDR, but pretty much for everything. Browsers are terrible at color management, and they all look different. Also you are not developing your look on a a closed loop monitor but on your computer monitor that shows all "good knows what" sorts of colors. And not having any scopes is like flying by ear on top of it.

This is the - at least for me - the elephant in the room.

I mean, it's not a bad app for look development - actually it's pretty good and I got some really nice and nuanced looks out of it.
I just would love to use it inside of Resolve, instead of a browser I don't trust and my UI monitor.

 

[Jonathan Ochmann]

Also you are not developing your look on a a closed loop monitor but on your computer monitor that shows all "good knows what" sorts of colors.

You definitely have a point there. It will be possible, in a future version, to detach the viewport in Color.io into a separate window that can be placed on a second reference monitor. Going out through a hardware monitoring card to a reference monitor will depend on upstream support for the required system APIs by browsers. I can definitely see it happening in the next few years though. I'm involved in webkit and chromium and there is already demand for this from multiple big stakeholders. We're going to be able to ride that wave sooner or later.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

This is precisely why I've implemented raw pixel data color management via ACES 1.3 in Color.io that completely bypasses the lack of a browser standard. So at least on Color.io, your browser has the exact same ACES reference implementation as any "desktop" software via a custom webGL powered processing architecture. So I don't see that particular elephant in the actual room, if the room you're referring to is the app I created ;-)

That's actually pretty impressive - didn't know that this is even possible.

 

[Aaron Kessler]

@Jonathan Ochmann does Color.io operate in a truly subtractive manner? I recently noticed that when I lower the density of high density (saturated) values, the result is darker, not lighter, as you would expect with a subtractive colorspace.

Also, is it possible to save custom presets? I cannot find this option.

 

[Jonathan Ochmann]

@Jonathan Ochmann does Color.io operate in a truly subtractive manner? I recently noticed that when I lower the density of high density (saturated) values, the result is darker, not lighter, as you would expect with a subtractive colorspace.

Also, is it possible to save custom presets? I cannot find this option.

Negative density should not influence luminance at all because it's using a perceptual saturation model. Here's what happens when you lower the density of highly saturated colors: The outermost saturation layers are being pulled in toward the grey axis in a way that the most saturated colors have the highest gravitational force to facilitate smooth gamut shaping:

Preset saving is possible but not enabled yet (it says so at top of the Presets panel in the app). I didn't want to enable user presets right away because I want to ensure backward compatibility for presets and I'm expecting to make breaking changes for at least the first few months of the feedback/development loop. Already working on the first big update!

If you need Presets right now, I can hack something together for you. Please make this an official feature request directly in the app. Feature requests will allow other users to vote/comment on your ideas and allow me to keep track of things to work on in one place!

Thank you so much!

 

[Aaron Kessler]

Negative density should not influence luminance at all because it's using a perceptual saturation model. Here's what happens when you lower the density of highly saturated colors: The outermost saturation layers are being pulled in toward the grey axis in a way that the most saturated colors have the highest gravitational force to facilitate smooth gamut shaping:

Preset saving is possible but not enabled yet (it says so at top of the Presets panel in the app). I didn't want to enable user presets right away because I want to ensure backward compatibility for presets and I'm expecting to make breaking changes for at least the first few months of the feedback/development loop. Already working on the first big update!

If you need Presets right now, I can hack something together for you. Please make this an official feature request directly in the app. Feature requests will allow other users to vote/comment on your ideas and allow me to keep track of things to work on in one place!

Thank you so much!

Apparently someone else had a similar idea already, so I just upvoted theirs. I also submitted an idea for a channel mixer that operates on RGB luminance and CMY "dyes", or rather something where you can craft your own spectral response. Just another way to make unique and nuanced looks.

https://www.kodak.com/content/produ...ION-Color-Print-Film-2383-3383-data-sheet.pdf

 

[Ruud de Korte]

Yes, I fully agree it's good to know (and must in a way) the basics of all those curves and gamuts and understand what they do and why you need them and what you can do with it.

Is see color.io as a tool. A tool to create looks for your own benefit to use freely.
A hammer is also a tool. And if this topic was about hammers we could discuss about what kind of steel is used, how the hammer grip feels in the hand and if this feels the same for left and right handed, its weight etcetera. Reality of today is that almost nobody, except the minority of tool manufacturers that make hammers care about hammers and their quality. We all know that the cheapest hammers don't last forever in usage.
Nobody will say "that construction is typically build with this or that kind of hammer".

So it does with color.io or any other colour tool. Use it or don't because It doesn't make sense to burn it down for whatever reasons while others might use it and are happy with it. It's a personal preference. Nobody would say "ah that's typically made with color.io". Of course, the well trained with keen eyes and years of experience can have opinions about colour tools and their usages because we understand the basics and handle, create as such. It's good to criticise and discuss. But that doesn't justify to say it's not good to break the rules if you don't know the rules. Instead, get used to it. Because as long as there won't be a button "make this image/video a beautiful and commercial well paying success for the whole world", we can handle from our expertise.

I'm a DOP

 

[Richard Dean]

I guess I'm a luttite. Can I trademark that? Sometimes I end up not even using a color managed workflow and roll my own delog because I can get more control that way.

 

[Tony Sal]

Cullen Kelly has a great video on his Youtube channel explaining the cons of rolling your own delog versus using color management.

Color management is a time saving workflow which when used properly is a major benefit to the overall grading process.

 

[Ruud de Korte]

Colour management is most important when working in a group with multiple monitors in a team on different locations. Get your monitor calibrated!

 

[Andree Markefors]

Colour management is most important when working in a group with multiple monitors in a team on different locations. Get your monitor calibrated!

Not sure if you mean something else by 'color management', but even as a single user, grading my own 'single' camera, I find color management (as in a centrally controlled, scene-referred workflow) to be extremely valuable. It does a lot of heavy lifting for you and coordinates a number of technical settings in a single place with a great overview. This doesn't mean you can't work any other way, but I firmly believe it's beneficial from the smallest "productions" and up.

 

[Aaron Kessler]

Quote by @Aaron Kessler: "And different tools allow for different looks"
But this pretty much mean that YOU are NOT in control. The tool controls you. So when you create a LUT with this tool, do you know if the LUT is in the 0-1 range. Do you know how clean the LUT is? Do you know how to stress test this LUT? What color space this LUT expects?

And how you are going to implement this into your workflow? You still have to grade inside DaVinci Resolve. Do you recreate the Look from scratch? Are you applying the LUT from the Website to your footage and hope for the best?

I love OFX plugins, DCTLs, all that stuff. But it has to work inside DaVinci Resolve. I don't want to grade inside a browser. I need scopes, I need DCTL. As I said before: There is no Shortcut.

Would you let a computer be the camera operator for a shot. Select Lens, focus, framing? I can argue: Well. My client is happy with the result.
But what if you want to change something. How can you control something where you don't even know HOW the tool works exactly.
You can work pretty fast in Resolve, too. Just apply a color space transform from LOG to Rec709. learn grading, save this a PowerGrade. Done. You can use the Look every single time and you know it will not "destroy" your image.

Learn the rules, so you can break them. Experiment. Be open with new tools. But you first have to understand the tools Inside DaVinci.
Breaking the rules without knowing the rules is just wrong. I can give a child some colors and might get an abstract painting back that might look good. So the conclusion is: Learn nothing about colors. Just take different kids and see what happens. If it looks interesting and if I can sell the painting, there is no problem? - Cmon- Color science and colorist is a profession. Take this seriously. Learn the rules first. THEN you can break them.

So, fast forward a year and I find myself agreeing with Lars. I guess it just took me hundreds of dollars spent on third party tools to realize that they wouldn't do what I needed them to do. I also needed someone to teach me. I recently signed up for TAC Resolve Training. And after a failed year of full-service video, I've decided to focus on color.

 

[Tony Sal]

So, fast forward a year and I find myself agreeing with Lars. I guess it just took me hundreds of dollars spent on third party tools to realize that they wouldn't do what I needed them to do. I also needed someone to teach me. I recently signed up for TAC Resolve Training. And after a failed year of full-service video, I've decided to focus on color.

Long term career success as a colorist can be achieved by committing to a foundation of academic education provided in masterclasses taught by a Senior Colorist not from Youtube University color influencers who push the latest miracle LUT or plugin. Check out Walter Volpatto’s Masterclass series on TAC as his unique and in-depth teaching style provides a mix of foundational education as well as real world grading workflows.

 

[Aaron Kessler]

Long term career success as a colorist can be achieved by committing to a foundation of academic education provided in masterclasses taught by a Senior Colorist not from Youtube University color influencers who push the latest miracle LUT or plugin. Check out Walter Volpatto’s Masterclass series on TAC as his unique and in-depth teaching style provides a mix of foundational education as well as real world grading workflows.

Already watched Walter's series! I have a year access to all of the TAC courses. Currently in the middle of Cullen Kelly's second course. I now know how to use the custom tool and have already built a few things with it.

 

[Jason Myres]

An important thing to keep in mind is that there are many "correct" ways to work in filmmaking. As you do your training don't take anything you learn as gospel, just add those ideas to your mental inventory so that you can discover the way you ultimately want to work. Over time you can develop a process that takes advantage of the wisdom of others, but is built on your values and preferences as an artist.

 

[Aaron Kessler]

An important thing to keep in mind is that there are many "correct" ways to work in filmmaking. As you do your training don't take anything you learn as gospel, just add those ideas to your mental inventory so that you can discover the way you ultimately want to work. Over time you can develop a process that takes advantage of the wisdom of others, but is built on your values and preferences as an artist.

Absolutely! I've already played this game with screenwriting; all the screenwriting books contradict each other. Nevertheless, I have already found much of the TAC courses to be invaluable. And my personal preferences refuse to be stifled, no matter how much I try to conform to industry trends.

 

[Ryan McNeal]

I like the Ted Lasso Way: "Be Curious, Not Judgemental". Curiosity and asking questions is the life-force of learning. We stop learning when we stop questioning.

 

[Michael Weinheim]

Buttery and VisionColor LUTs...the YouTuber's dream.