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Grading in Resolve for theatrical release

Sachin Desai

Sachin Desai

I've done lots of research, obviously on internet for grading monitor and the more I search more i get confused...

and I concluded to these...

for monitor
  • 10 bit display is must
  • rec 709 dci p3 color space is must
  • IsFCCC option in monitor / display
For Output
  • a 10 bit output card BMD or AJA (I use resolve for grading on mac so I am thinking of BMD) so 10 bit display will receive 10 bit signals which is very important
for Calibration (optional)
  • Color Meter c6 /c3 / i1 display pro oem
  • Lightspace or calmant studio to calibrate with resolve

My first choice is FSI CM171 over any computer monitor like HP / Eizo or like wise as it has more pro inputs

That's the only monitor which is cheap and accurate I think.

Please suggest me anything which is close to CM171 for same price or less.

Thanks
 
Even if you get that 17" monitor calibrated perfectly to DCI standards, it will still be a vastly different experience when watching your content in the cinema on a big projection screen. Not just because of the OLED vs. DLP projection technology mismatch, but also because your grading choices regarding audience focus, image sharpness, use of shapes & vignettes, etc. will be thrown off quite a bit, because the monitor is just so small. You should try to get a screen as big as possible or better a real projection setup. That would probably be way more important than 10bit and P3 if you're on such a tight budget. You can totally master Rec709 for the cinema and have that properly converted to P3 without any loss. You might not even need the extra colors in the P3 gamut for your films. It's not ideal at all of course, but I wouldn't want to grade a cinema release on a 17" screen. There will be things you'll miss and not see on that small screen.

Also, calibration is not "optional" ;)
 
My thinking about grading monitors is to invest in a FSI CM250 OLED and spend less on every other part of your setup if necessary. You get a decent sized factory calibrated completely accurate and reliable monitor with built in scopes which gives complete confidence in what you're looking at. If it means (as in my case) that you can't justify the cost of a fast computer then you have to put up with caching everything!
 
yes you are right need big screen,,, in that case barco projector or nec /jvc projector but than you need that much space and budget everything around it. What i am doing is regional film. and those are not Hollywood budget like...

calibration is optional as in you can always call a professional to calibrate it rather than investing in it. after many nights of search on net and viewing videos on youtube and even when i see youtube videos or training videos of resolve most of them uses CM monitor as reference,, which makes it more prominent to understand that it should be best compatible if not reliable and close to what you get to see in theater. I've looked Lynda's tutorial also and they recommend CM250 though..

and i am anyways planing to check it in theater before final delivery.. just to be confident.

thanks for your views..
 
Actually I thought of getting CM Monitor as I've graded on that monitor and it was very close in projection.. but when i calibrated my current setup and watched the output on projection it looked very dark and not what I was hoping for...:( then i decided to invest in CM171

Currently my setup is like
  • Mac Pro 6 Core with 32GB RAM
  • Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch for GUI
  • Asus 18 inch monitor for another GUI (generally I use it for scopes from resolve)
  • Panasonic 32 Inch LED TV (have calibrated with X-rite) but not confident
  • BMD Studio Monitor for output
  • X-Rite i1 Display Pro
  • Resolve Studio Version
and now planning to get CM171 for grading monitor
 
Felix Hüsken said:
Even if you get that 17" monitor calibrated perfectly to DCI standards, it will still be a vastly different experience when watching your content in the cinema on a big projection screen. Not just because of the OLED vs. DLP projection technology mismatch, but also because your grading choices regarding audience focus, image sharpness, use of shapes & vignettes, etc. will be thrown off quite a bit, because the monitor is just so small. You should try to get a screen as big as possible or better a real projection setup. That would probably be way more important than 10bit and P3 if you're on such a tight budget. You can totally master Rec709 for the cinema and have that properly converted to P3 without any loss. You might not even need the extra colors in the P3 gamut for your films. It's not ideal at all of course, but I wouldn't want to grade a cinema release on a 17" screen. There will be things you'll miss and not see on that small screen.

Also, calibration is not "optional" ;)
Click to expand...


I agree with everything you said, but I just wanted to point out for anyone reading this that the CM171 is not an OLED display. It's LCD.
 
Sachin Desai said:
for monitor
  • 10 bit display is must
  • rec 709 dci p3 color space is must
  • IsFCCC option in monitor / display
Click to expand...
You probably know that Rec709 and DCI P3 are entirely different things on almost every spec except pixel format, but as a lot of folks have rightfully pointed out, you don't really need P3 monitoring. But it doesn't hurt either. If by ISFccc you mean in monitor calibration, then yes, I really think that's important too. Just not that specific label/system.

Sachin Desai said:
For Output
  • a 10 bit output card BMD or AJA (I use resolve for grading on mac so I am thinking of BMD) so 10 bit display will receive 10 bit signals which is very important
Click to expand...
If you're working with Resolve, only BMD is an option.


Sachin Desai said:
for Calibration (optional)
  • Color Meter c6 /c3 / i1 display pro oem
  • Lightspace or calmant studio to calibrate with resolve
Click to expand...
If by optional you mean that you can hire someone to do it periodically, sure. But calibrating your monitor is absolutely not optional. Having one or more sensors yourself can be useful if for whatever reason you're unconfident about your display. It's also useful to have one yourself for your GUI monitors, to generate proper profiles.

Sachin Desai said:
My first choice is FSI CM171 over any computer monitor like HP / Eizo or like wise as it has more pro inputs
Click to expand...

Well that kind of depends on why you need those pro inputs. HDMI RGB has practically the same image information as SDI does. The only real downsides of HDMI that I can think of are cable length and the signal is negotiated, giving you slightly less control. But you can verify if it's doing what you want with testing, which you should do either way. My choice was the CG247X which has a great gamut, 10 bit HDMI and DP and a pretty convincing P3 cinema 'feel' in the dark, due to it's thick black bezel and dimmable power/menu buttons. If you're grading for theater you need to be able to imagine what you're seeing on a big screen, which is a little easier if your screen isn't very little.


Sachin Desai said:
Actually I thought of getting CM Monitor as I've graded on that monitor and it was very close in projection.. but when i calibrated my current setup and watched the output on projection it looked very dark and not what I was hoping for...:( then i decided to invest in CM171
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're using as a reference display now, but keep in mind when calibrating that you should also tune display brightness to match your final screen. I think DCI P3 emulation calls for 48cd/m or nits.
 
Sachin Desai said:
I've done lots of research, obviously on internet for grading monitor and the more I search more i get confused...

and I concluded to these...

for monitor
  • 10 bit display is must
  • rec 709 dci p3 color space is must
  • IsFCCC option in monitor / display
For Output
  • a 10 bit output card BMD or AJA (I use resolve for grading on mac so I am thinking of BMD) so 10 bit display will receive 10 bit signals which is very important
for Calibration (optional)
  • Color Meter c6 /c3 / i1 display pro oem
  • Lightspace or calmant studio to calibrate with resolve

My first choice is FSI CM171 over any computer monitor like HP / Eizo or like wise as it has more pro inputs

That's the only monitor which is cheap and accurate I think.
Click to expand...

Bite the bullet and get the CM171 for now - you will not regret it and you can be at least more certain that the color is quite accurate than some higher end consumer monitor etc.. . Regarding size, yes it is only 17" but you can always use a larger monitor as reference and in conjunction with your CM171. I know many professional colorists who started on CM171 who put out really great work and eventually you can always upgrade too if you want.

good luck with your choice,
 
dimas faisal said:
Hi there... If my budget only allow to buy eizo cg2420 or LG C8, do i still have a chance ? :(
Click to expand...
I recently graded a theatrical feature on my Eizo CX271. You don't really need 10 bit either. I calibrated my display using open source Displaycal software and an iOne Display pro. 3D display LUT loaded in Resolve. Graded in REC709 gamma 2.2 and the DCP looked very very close to my expectations.

So, you definitely have "a chance"!

I would suggest getting the DCP made in a professional post house that also has a calibrated projection theater to check your work before you deliver it to theaters. You may want to make a very short 2 minute test reel, make a DCP test, and view that in the theater to confirm your workflow before you make the final DCP.

BTW our movie broke the box office record for a Ukrainian made film, distributed in Ukraine :) Success is quite possible.
 
I’m a fan of the cg247x. Fits your budget, is self calibrating, supports 10 bit, 24P, custom luts and then some. That way you don’t need luts in resolve and it compares really really well to a Flanders lcd. I’m considering a second one for my home studio. I’d be hesitant to get a C8 without a reference monitor, since it’s good to check your image from time to time. That’s less of an issue if you get a professional calibration, but that bumps up the price of the C8 to Flanders levels. With the upside of 4K OLED of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Bruce Alan Greene said:
I recently graded a theatrical feature on my Eizo CX271. You don't really need 10 bit either. I calibrated my display using open source Displaycal software and an iOne Display pro. 3D display LUT loaded in Resolve. Graded in REC709 gamma 2.2 and the DCP looked very very close to my expectations.

So, you definitely have "a chance"!

I would suggest getting the DCP made in a professional post house that also has a calibrated projection theater to check your work before you deliver it to theaters. You may want to make a very short 2 minute test reel, make a DCP test, and view that in the theater to confirm your workflow before you make the final DCP.

BTW our movie broke the box office record for a Ukrainian made film, distributed in Ukraine :) Success is quite possible.
Click to expand...

wow, congratulation for you and your team... thanks for advice and the inspiration...


Roel Videler said:
I’m a fan of the cg247x. Fits your budget, is self calibrating, supports 10 bit, 24P, custom luts and then some. That way you don’t need luts in resolve and it compares really really well to a Flanders lcd. I’m considering a second one for my home studio. I’d be hesitant to get a C8 without a reference monitor, since it’s good to check your image from time to time. That’s less of an issue if you get a professional calibration, but that bumps up the price of the C8 to Flanders levels. With the upside of 4K OLED of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Ok Thanks for reply. I'll consider it... I think if iam gonna use a lut box + CG2420 then maybe i will buy CG247x
 
Barend Onneweer said:
I wouldn't put too much faith in the self-calibration of the Eizo's. They get you in the rough ballpark. But I have a CG247 and a CG248 side-by-side, and the internal calibration looks different enough to be problematic. They're good monitors, but for critical use you'd want to calibrate them with a better probe.
Click to expand...

You're right and YMMV. Maybe I'm just lucky with mine. I've read disappointing things about the sensor, uniformity and color accuracy. Mine just seems to not have any of those issues. I can imagine if I get an identical model I might be disappointed.
 
Roel Videler said:
You're right and YMMV. Maybe I'm just lucky with mine. I've read disappointing things about the sensor, uniformity and color accuracy. Mine just seems to not have any of those issues. I can imagine if I get an identical model I might be disappointed.
Click to expand...

What do you compare it to, though? Do you have an FSI next to it?
 
Ryan McNeal said:
Anyone have an opinion on this vs a used 2K Barco (similar going price on Ebay)?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-SRX-R...275881?hash=item41e11750e9:g:C0IAAOSwZTJa6gU-
Click to expand...
The Sony SRX's have kind of a rocky reputation for reliability. I see a lot more Barcos being used around LA in post, for sure, mostly because they're intended for small rooms (a maximum of 20-30 seats). Local service for both Barco and Christie is also very good.

Cost no object, I'd jump on a Christie 6P Laser projector, because I'm told that it's possible to have two calibration settings: one for Laser, and one that emulates DCI Xenon projectors. But I'm skeptical that it works 100%, and let's face it... cost is always an object. Still, it's hard to beat the idea of a laser light source guaranteed to run for 8-9 years before needing replacement. I did not like having to replace a $700 light bulb every 5-6 weeks, which is what we went through on the Christies and JVCs back in the day.
 
jake blackstone said:
As I'm wring this while sitting in Kiev apartment, thanks to your movie, Ukraine now has a comedian president and we may impeach ours;)
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Don't get your hopes up... If that's your position :)

I'm in Kazakhstan now. Maybe we can work on the next impeachment? :) ;)

Enjoy Kyiv! Are you working there as a colorist? Shooting a movie? Just relaxing? All good ideas. Удачи!
 
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